Arizona Gambling Forum - Poker, Pari-mutuel facilities, Casinos

ballen · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 5

I've been thinking about something to try in live tournament play. It stems from what I realize that I do, so I'm going to try the reverse tomorrow.

I've realized that I watch the flop as it is 'flopped over'. That's the best description that I can use. When the dealer actually turns the cards over, I've noticed that I'm always looking at the cards.

What I'm going to do is watch the player watch the flop. I think that if I delay my seeing the cards, I could possibly gain some valuable info if they are doing what I did. Their reaction, if any, might give me some valuable info.

I think that there are basically two reactions. I say this based upon my reactions to a flop. Either I know I'm going to bet (catching a flush, straight or a set) or I'm trying to figure out what their hand is.

I want to know if I can see them making those decisions while I watch them watch the flop. And besides, the cards aren't going to change whether I look at them as they are flopped or 5 seconds after that, but, my actions might.

Any thoughts?

lork · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 6

That actually doesent sound like a half bad idea. Let me know how it works out
Just to add to that. Remember normal players(not seasoned vets) give tells.

Players who sit back in their chair and are betting know they have a good hand. Players who sit forward and are in the pot are on the draw or anticipating the next card. Players who splash the pot normally are bluffing. Players who continue to look at their cards are on the draw or have flopped low pair. Players with hands on their chips before its their turn to bet have a hand that they are ready to bet on. Players with hands covering their mouth are probably bluffing are thinking about doing so. Players who look down at the table and avoid eye contact have a betting hand as is the opposite of players who look you in the eye when they bet.

chris · Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 7

Absolutely a good practice. It goes right along with not looking at your hole cards until it is your turn to act.

Not only can you be watching other players for their reactions, but since you haven't seen the cards yet, you eliminate the chance for those that act before you to pick up a tell from you.

razor · Joined: 21 Dec 2005 Posts: 5

what do you gain from this? watching opponents look at their hole cards? I've never seen anyone have any form of reaction to looking, and the people i play with are far from veterans. Do you have anything particular that you look for?

johnf · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 5

I have mentioned this before, but might be worth restating...

What I have noticed is that after everybody has looked at their hole cards... Look around the table and you can tell who's ready to toss the cards and who's gonna play. This can help you if your in early position. It's really amazing how many people "cock their cards" ready to fold.

I try to always place a bet (3-6 game = 3 chips) on my cards as protection on every hand, folding on not. Nobody knows if Im in or not until it's my turn. Sometimes as a chip bluff, before it's my turn, I will gather more chips, like i'm getting ready to raise. I don't think most players are seeing or paying attention to me, but you never know who's watching you.

DeepBlue · Joined: 19 Dec 2005 Posts: 12

It's a fairly standard way, you'll notice that once you're done looking at your cards, or if people around the table are checking theirs, you will look at them and watch them without realising it. This is where you pick up valuable information.

Good players will watch others and conceal themselves as much as possible, as people check the flop watch them. Someone makes a bet, steal a look at the flop then concentrate on the next player round. That way you won't look surprised, or nervous etc in front of everyone else - you can gain a lot of information on a player from a natural reaction.

Good luck, hope you get some good insight into your opponents.