Arizona Gambling Forum - Poker, Pari-mutuel facilities, Casinos

chris · Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 7

how do you determine if your getting correct odds to call a bet on the river. heres an example.

Your in a nl holdem ring game, lets say you have As9s, you raise from the button, bb calls flop Ks Js 4h, he bets, you call, turn 7d he bets you call, river 4s. now he makes a bet for all your chips. and lets say your gettin 3-1 on your money, but the board just paired and theres the posibility he had JJ and made a boat since he bet into you from the flop on, but your unsure, he could eaily have AK, KJ, etc... How can you determine of the pot is offering you the correct price to call or not?

johnf · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 5

Really, pot odds are a question of drawing to the best hand, not calling an all-in on the end.

You hold A9s. The flop came out 2 spades. Great! You know have between 1/4-1/3 (30%) chance of hitting the flush in one o the next two cards (roughly 1/5 on each). Therefore, you should call any bet that requires you to put in more than 1/3 of the total pot.

In limit, this is easy. In no limit, not so easy because frequently the person with top pair is going to bet the pot, giving you terrible odds to draw your flush. You might want to consider betting yourself (a decent amount) to fool him into thinking you're not on a draw, and build the pot.

That is why in NL, it's best not to chase just flush draws. Only call big bets if you have a straight AND flush draw (48% to hit after flop), or top pair and flush (giving you a little less than 45% to draw the best hand).

Your question about the river depends on the player. In limit, it's easy to just call, because the pot is so big what's one more big bet. In NL, since he bet your entire stack, it's not that easy. Pot odds are not coming into effect here, because there is no draw. It is a made hand already. You either have the best of it, or you don't. He could have KJ. He could have a lower flush. He could have the full-house. Is this a bluffing player? Is this a guy who only plays top hands? Go with your read. If there is any doubt that you don't have the best hand, don't risk all your chips. Pretty simple, right?

chris · Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 7

yes, i know how to find the odds on the flop and turn etc, but there isnt a way to decide if the pots offering you a correct price to call on the river? i guess ill just go with my read like i have been.

johnf · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 5

If it costs your whole stack, nope. No such thing as pot odds there. You either have the winning hand or you don't.

In limit poker, it's easy: call on almost any river, unless you are 100% certain that you are beat.

In no limit, if it's gonna cost you your rack, then don't call.

That is why no limit takes more reading skills.

chris · Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 7

Thanks johnf.
You've made a very good point.
I should consider this one in playing limit poker.
I agree no limit takes more reading skills.